All right. Welcome back, guys. Today I have Sarah Gise with me. She’s an executive function coach, among many other things.

I’m going to let her introduce herself. Go ahead, Sarah.

Hi. I am Sarah Gise Yes, I am an executive functioning coach with effective artistry. I work a lot with adults with ADHD. I also have many other things that I do. I have a theater background. I am an actor in Chicago. Before the pandemic, I was performing on stages all over Chicago and doing a lot of voiceover and just all the things, all the things involved with acting.

The other thing that I started in the pandemic is I have a candle company called

Really Urban one.

Yeah, called Backup Plan Candles. We make snarky so I candles we were actually just on WGN on Spotlight Chicago. It was our TV debut. So that was fun. So we have candles with snarky names like Ugly Crying and Vacation I Can’t Afford and overworked under Caffeinated.

And we have our fall ones coming out. We’ve got apple bottoms screams, pumpkin vice seasonal allergies lots of them. We I, I make all the candles myself and my husband and I work to find the perfect name for them.

I have to know what does seasonal allergies smell like?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s honestly, it smells like a fall day.

It’s like a fall breeze. So it’s like fir needles and like. And sage and oak moss and it’s. lovely. Yeah, it’s really nice.

Yeah. I love the word snarky. Like, it’s funny. Not a lot of people use that word, and I started using that word years ago and my husband’s like, That’s not a word. I’m like, No, it is.

And I relate to Snarky so much. And I was watching Tastic. Yeah, I

was watching. And I think Dharma and Greg, do you remember that show? Yeah. Okay. I think it was based on like, I don’t know where it actually was recorded, but these the scenes were based in San Francisco. And she, like said on there, she’s called her husband snarky.

And I looked at my husband and I’m like, it’s absurd

and stuff.

And it so well describes your candles. I love that.

Thank

you. Okay. So how do you work with people when you’re working with people with their executive function skills? Like walk us through that process. What does that look like?

Yeah, so I have a client come to me.

They usually reach out via email and I get some information. You know, if they’re reaching out, they’ve gotten to a point where they’re like, something is working. I’ve heard that there’s resources out there that I should maybe utilize. So they reach out. They’ve got a few things going on and maybe for example, it’s I’m really having trouble staying organized.

I’m getting in fights with my husband because I keep forgetting things. I you know, I forgot to I keep forgetting to lock the door or whatever it is, or maybe that’s just me. But that’s a great example. It comes with a lot. my gosh, I know my husband’s like this. It’s important that we have security. And I’m like, I didn’t do it on purpose anyways, so.

So, yeah. So they come in with something like that. I meet with them for a consult. We start with just Hello, other human. We are in a room. Let’s talk about how we are now in a room together. Even though it’s all virtual. And that was different from 5 minutes ago before you were here. And you know that you’ve probably got expectations, some things you’ve been thinking about before meeting with a coach.

So tell me where you’re at. Yeah, and that’s kind of how we start. We just start with as much authenticity as possible and I’ll tell them if I’m feeling nervous that day, if I’m feeling jittery, if I’ve had too much coffee, I’ll kind of mention it too. And so we’re really just getting on the same page as as humans,

I like to use the word authenticity.

The other word that I would add to that is vulnerability. And that sounds like a scary word, but when it comes to coaching, I realized that when I was getting certified in coaching that it’s like, I’m going to have to be. Because what we do in certification is like we coach each other and I’m like, I’m going to have to be fully vulnerable here and like, show up with the truth.

And I like that you’re setting your clients up for that. Like, tell me the truth. Like, how are you feeling? What’s going on? Like

kind of thing, you know? And you model that too. You don’t just ask them to be truthful and then like, stay stoic yourself or pretend like you have all the answers. I’m not interested in, you know, I’m not going to be like, Yes, I am the best coach that’s ever existed.

And I have all the answers. And you just sit here we are. We’re going to I’m just going to unleash them on you and not not interested in it doesn’t work. It’s and it’s not authentic. And people who do that are probably lying. But but and also, there are so many resources out there, like YouTube videos and like lectures, write books you can read to find out more about things.

Coaching, to me is about two humans showing up together and and putting their brains together. Yeah, right. And processing some of the information they got from the lectures, the books, whatever they’re

like. You talked about verbal processing and how important that was, and one thing that I mentioned was like, sometimes that’s all my clients want is to verbally process what’s going on or what their future plans are or things like that.

Where, where, how does that work in in your field?

Yeah, well, I’m constantly just amazed at how brilliant my clients are. And honestly, they come in sometimes they come in like, I’m such a mess and I’m just I’m so stupid. I’m so whatever, whatever, whatever. And as they talk and as I sit there supporting them, they come up with solutions, these beautiful creative solutions to their problem.

And they just need somebody to validate that and listen, which makes my job really enjoyable and really and not I wouldn’t say easy because listening is active. Listening is not easy by any stretch, but it’s just really amazing that if you if you if you as a coach and I’m sure you can relate to this, if you trust your client that they will get there, you can really do anything.

Yeah. You know, and that helps their confidence too. Yeah.

Well, and we like to say like they have the solutions inside of them. It’s just our job to like, ask the right questions, to pull it out of them. Yeah. In order because they have the solutions, they just, and sometimes, like you mentioned, the verbal processing, sometimes they’re giving the solution and don’t even know it until you feed it back to them.

Yeah. And then they’re

like said that. yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

I love to say I, with everything, all of my many jobs, I lead with curiosity. Always lead with curiosity. Absolutely. Because there’s because curiosity leads to creativity. And to me, creativity is is just it’s it’s I’ll get emotional. It’s to me, art and creativity is all that really matters.

It’s finding finding something that you previously thought was disconnected and connecting it. How amazing is that? That moment with the but light bulb moment that eureka like, how awesome is that? Absolutely all experience that in our different ways.

And so this is a perfect time to talk about your podcast and I think that’s why you are getting a little emotional because this is so important to you about you have put together a beautiful podcast and I want to circle back around to the executive function skills.

I want to talk more about that, but tell people about your podcast. Yeah, so back in 2020 when all the theaters were shut down, my I found myself with nothing to do, you know, a similar story to a lot of artists I know and a lot of people in general that I know. And I realized that I just had this I had I had been diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, but I was so secretive about it with all of my artist friends.

I didn’t want to talk about medications with them. I didn’t want to talk about how much it took me to learn lines and how how much effort I have to put into being present on stage, you know, and not like drifting off like how much it takes me. I was so ashamed of that. And somehow with I like started journaling and I just realized the podcast kind of came to me.

The ADHD Artist podcast is what it’s called. And basically I interview artists with ADHD and ask them questions about their lives and celebrate them. And we talk about how they got diagnosed. And you know what, what were the over the telltale signs? What I my favorite question to start with is what was your biggest ADHD moment in the last few days?

I heard that you asked that almost every time, right? People are like, boy, strap it. And yeah, which. Sam No, that’s a lovely thing to ask here. Like, what was your biggest ADHD moment in the past few days? yeah. Okay. to pick one. Right. Because then there’s a long and I want to I’m going to ask you the same thing.

I don’t know. Okay. Can I ask questions on your. Absolutely. Yeah. I think, I think that time management wise, I could have done today a little differently because I just moved into a new place and I hadn’t tested out my microphone. You know, I have this really nice microphone. I have my own podcast, but I hadn’t tested it out in my new place and meeting with you, I was like, okay, well, I’ll just test it out then.

And 30 minutes before I, like, realized that my microphone, my like stand was falling down and that like I didn’t have a plug for my laptop up. And so it was a lot of scrambling of like, you know what? If I had thought about this yesterday or the day before, I probably could have put that together and not had the panic attack going in to record in a podcast.

So I would say that was my most recent ADHD moment.

So what about you? So mine is is kind of like a working memory. One which okay, this is going to sound funny, I’m sure, but I love the mineral water. Topo Chico, have you ever heard of that? yes. Okay. It’s out of Mexico. Yeah. I love it.

Yeah. And so when I take a bath in the evening, I want to have my topo Chico. And so last night I was going to, like, we have kind of a farm situation here. And so I was going to feed the animals. And the night before I had forgotten it. And so you get into the bath and you want to get out and know to watch you go.

And so sad. And so I was just like so struggling, like with my working memory to go like, don’t forget the topo Chico, Don’t forget the date. And I just don’t feel like normal people have to do these things. And I did remember to do it, but it was like a little bit stressful and like remembering the thing, Remembering the thing, remembering, thinking.

And then like this morning I was working on social media stuff and I couldn’t. It was, again, a working memory issue where like, I couldn’t remember, like, is this the copy of the thing I made? Or is this the original of the thing I made? Therefore, is this episode such and such, or is this episode such and such?

And then I did get them mixed up and had to like go and redo them. But you know, giving myself grace, it was like no big deal that I had to redo it. I just had to like, do more double checking that I feel like people should have to do. And so like two working memory examples right there.

Yeah. my gosh, I relate. I’m sure that a lot of people listening can relate to both of our stories. And we were talking before and and I do want to get back to executive function skills just so people understand what they are. But working memory too, that you’re an actress, what is it like having working memory issues and having to learn lines?

Yeah, Yeah. Well, so lines are one thing, but when you talked about working memory just now in this context, I was thinking about the other thing which is blocking. So blocking meaning where you’re moving on stage. interesting. Doing with your hands. What props are you interacting with? Is there maybe there’s like a stage fight or whatever. So that combined with other lines that are in the script, there is a lot a lot to focus on when you’re on stage.

I will say that that, that having those moments of everything all at once makes me feel the most alive because everything’s like flowing. But to get to that moment, the prep is rough. So memorizing lines, it’s, it’s a big thing that comes up with a lot of the people I talk to with ADHD. I think as I was telling you before, I did, I did a one person show where I played seven characters and I it was just me talking for an hour and 15 minutes.

I can imagine it was a lot. It was a lot because I’m I’m the only person that, like, you’re there. I’m the entertainment. If the show isn’t going well, it’s me. I’m the person. So it was a lot of pressure. But when I first got the script, I was like, There’s absolutely no way that I could memorize all this.

And you know what I did? I took my time, I did what I needed. I, I talked to everybody. I knew that I had done a one person show. Everybody who, like there are so many tricks out there to learning lines that I mean, I can share some of those specifics, but but like, there’s this thing called line learner, if any actors are listening or if you’re just trying to memorize lines for a speech.

Well, I guess I don’t know if it worked for a speech, but Line Learner is an app where you can record your lines and the other person’s lines. So it’s really great for scene work and then you can practice. So you just hear the other person’s lines and then you can say it was great. And then with speech work with like if you’re memorizing a speech or a monologue, like I was for the one person show, kind of taking it line by line, starting with one line, saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and then moving to the next line and then saying the next line with

the first line. So you’re adding in, you’re adding in a little bit more each time, and you just go over in a way more than you think you need to. Yeah, that’s that’s my technique for anyone looking to memorize speeches, which a lot of us have to now, even people who aren’t actors. And one thing that I’m always working with my clients on is like reducing stress to improve working memory.

You mentioned like if you forgot a line on stage, like you’ll just breathe. Tell us about that. Yeah. So when you are on stage and you have the thought of, no, I may have forgotten my line. Instead of searching for your line, what typically happens is you start to go, no, I always forget lines. no, I can never remember this one.

What’s wrong with me? Why are you so stupid? Why can’t you just move? Do spiral. Exactly. And. And you’re sitting there like, you know, we’re talking about it here, but you’re on stage. There are however many people in the audience. There’s your scene partner right here that you’re talking to. People are counting on you and you’re sitting there going on this doomed spiral like, I’m quite similar.

So what I learned to do is and this is not easy and I still struggle with it is just find a way to give yourself grace in the moment and breathe so you can start. I always before I go on stage, I meditate and I, I do like a mindfulness meditation of just focusing on the breath and just focusing on like what the breath feels like coming, you know, like very specific, like through my nostrils and what it feels like going out through my mouth and where I’m feeling the breath.

So, like, you’re just breathing. And then when you’re on stage and you forget the line, you’ve trained yourself to be like, all I have to do is breathe. right. All I have to do with this breathe. It just like, just takes that that pressure off a little bit. And I’ve found that that is the only thing that helps when I forget a line that’s so interesting.

There’s a book and I actually talked about this book in the podcast, I don’t know how many episodes ago, but it’s called I Know What to Do, so why Don’t I Do it? And in that book he talks about like training for stress. And that kind of reminds me of what you’re talking about here, where like with your meditation, you’ve kind of trained for stressful moments and you’ve trained ahead of time how to deal with them.

And then your body has that memory of like, this is where we just calm down. Yeah, right. Yeah. And you’re our brains and bodies are so much better than we think they are. Like, they it is amazing how much you can hold in your body if you just let that flow happen. If you just allow it. Yeah, it’s just amazing the things that you can do.

Beautiful. All right, Well, circling back around to the executive function scales because we’re talking about them, but some people might not know what that means. So when you’re working with people with executive function skills, what exactly are they for you? Yeah. So they’re the language varies, definitely. And I usually have my little my little sheet here because there’s like, you know, some some of the books say eight of them, some say 12, whatever.

So that’s what I tell people. I’m like, there’s like 8 to 42, depending on who you talk to. Exactly. And some of them you can break into like subcategories. Exactly. But the big ones that I focus on in my coaching are working memory for sure. You already mentioned that task initiation for getting started, right? Delays. Laser went right with that book.

Like, like, like, can I do the thing I wanted to do or what? What was the book called? I Know What to Do. So why don’t I do it? So why don’t I do it? Yeah. Task initiation is a big one. Time management. yeah. I mean, we could get in organization was one that you said was big with your people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. Right, so organization. And I also feel like time management can be broken up into separate it, but we’ll come back to that. So yeah organization metacognition yes you’re thinking about your thinking. Thinking about your thinking. That’s exactly right. And and the way I like to describe that is I, we, it sounds like we both like to get really specific with our clients, get like really zoomed in.

And the way I talk about metacognition is that it’s really important to stay zoomed in, but then also zoom out once in a while and go check in, check in, check in. Chicken is what’s happening was Hacker Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s those are I mean those are just a few of the ones that well, there was one that I, that I said in the language that I use and you gave me language that I’ve heard before, but I like better and so I’m going to actually start using that.

But I said goal sustainability, which is like once you get started on something, finishing it to the end and you said goal directed persistence was the language that you used, which I keep talking about persistence. And so I think that’s like a much better way to say it. Yeah, but yeah, you can even say you can see that like some people talk about executive function skills in different ways and I’m curious, does does for you, does planning and prioritization go into time management?

That’s a great question for me, planning and prioritization. I don’t know if it goes under time management because time management does feel like kind of a separate category. It’s we don’t have control over how time moves. It’s going to move in the way that society says it’s going to move, but we can manage what we’re doing at like how we’re using those specific amounts of time.

But for me, planning and prioritization are almost two separate categories of executive functioning scale, because planning is what do I need to do? How am I going to prepare for that prioritization is okay. Now I have a list of all the things that need to happen. What order do I go in? What do I start with? How do I pick one?

How many times have you like gone to start a thing? And you’re like, There’s just too many things I can’t choose, so I’m just going to not do any of them. Absolutely. I work with and I actually developed this from a client and I call it like a now Not Now list. And what that is, is a way to and we use the same language as far as offloading information, but it’s a way to offload the information, but naturally prioritize because only the only things that are going to go on your now list are the things that matter today and tomorrow and everything else goes on the not now list because and you’re going to

hide. You’re not now list from yourself. You’re not going to actually be looking at that because there is also that list stress that can happen where people get a list of things and now they’re like, that’s too many things and they start freaking out. And so that that reduces the list. Stress. What are some ways you work with people on prioritizing?

Yeah, I love that. By the way, I when, when thing I like to do with priorities, prioritization is in terms of to do list. So say that to do list is already made right looking at it as a menu versus a you must do this like treating it like instead of it’s your boss, it’s here are the options, here are the options that you have.

And somehow reframing it like that tends to help a lot because it’s like, okay, well, I can’t do all these things there. That is just not possible. So what is the thing that if I don’t do it, the roof is going to fall, caving and you know, like what? What is the thing that I need to do and also would take me the least amount of effort potentially.

Yeah I I’ve heard about like eating the frog, you know, and like starting with the really hard task and I think it’s really helpful in a lot of ways. I find that with my clients it’s more helpful to start with the easy task because then it’s like and you tell me if you experience this too, but like once it’s started, it’s hard to stop.

Like once that, like mode has started of like now I’m working on things. It’s you get into a rhythm and you’re already doing it. And so you just keep on with that mode. And so I find that, yeah, doing the thing that’s, that’s the easiest. Like, like make a cup of coffee. Yeah. Right. That’s getting started somewhere. Getting started with something that takes like the minimum amount of effort and then always cross it off your to do list.

it’s just because it’s so satisfying. I even go so far as to tell people, like, even if it’s not on your list and you did it, put it on the list and cross it off. Absolutely. Because your brain at the end of the day will tell you you did nothing and it’s a lie. So yeah. And I tell the story of how I discovered that that was a lie.

There was a time that I was doing some work and I’m like, You’re not getting anything done. You’re not getting anything done. And finally I was like, enough. And I got out a piece of paper and I wrote down everything that I had done well, since I had sat down. And the paper was like full top to bottom.

Yeah. And I’m like, okay. So our brains just lie to us sometimes, and that’s just how it is. Well, that’s a brilliant exercise, too, is to say is whenever you have that feeling of like, I’m not doing anything, well, write down some things that you’ve that you’ve done and start with the most basic things. Like I brushed my teeth, I got out of bed, I like the most basic things and it’ll probably lead to, to a lot more.

And you’ll surprise yourself with Yeah, she did. And one that we did. Well, maybe we did mention. Did we mention task initiation getting started? We did a brief briefly, but we didn’t talk. We mentioned that one. But what I was telling you before the before we hit record was that’s actually my most popular YouTube video besides, like Little While We Care, which is a really a book that I think is just really ADHD friendly, that getting started Task initiation.

So many people struggle with that. Like, what do you do to work with people on task initiation? Yeah, so getting really clear about what it is that they’re trying to start, I think what I was going to jump in and say is like, well, break it down. But I feel like we’ve heard break it down so much. Yeah.

What does that mean? Right. It’s like, okay, yes, break it down. Yes, yes, yes, yes, whatever. But like but what that means is find the first thing. And the game that I play is asking, what do you need to do to do that? So the example I gave you before is like, okay, I need to let’s say I need to get my car fixed, I need to fix the headlight on my car.

But on your to do list, it just says fix car so you’re not going to do it. If it just says fix car because it’s not specific. It’s not it’s like, yeah, I’ll deal with it. It’s just kind of a vague, like blur of a car, right? So when I start asking, what do you need to do to do that?

It’s like, okay, well, in order to fix the car, I have to figure out exactly what’s wrong. Okay? It’s it’s, you know, it’s the headlight, which I just said, but like, but then figuring out, like, what’s what’s next.

So yes, but like the the breakdown of what needs to happen, what happens next.

And when we were talking about it before, you were talking about the example of like washing the car and it was like you were like, and what next and why you need to get the hose and okay, what next? And then they needed to call somebody to get the hose. It’s like, right, That obstacle is huge. Yeah. There’s so many more steps than than just fix car or wash car.

Right. Like you’re going to have to make. Maybe you find that you have to pick up the phone and you. Right. You have to call someone. Maybe you have to actually go down to your car to look and see which headlight is broken or which part of the car needs to be washed. Right. And so you keep asking, what do you need to do to do that until you get to the smallest first task you can, which and the most actionable thing which may even just be open up your laptop, you know, or go to this one website or walk it down to your car and glance at it.

You know, starting with something like that is for me can be the most helpful thing with task initiation. Yeah. All right. God, I love that. I think that be so helpful to people. And what I like to tell people when I’m working with clients, I’m always asking them, and when are we going to do that? Like, what time and what day?

And the reason I do that is because they say if you give it a day in a time, you’re 80% more likely to do it. And we both send our clients away with action items and we noticed that that was in common. And that’s what I do is I give a specific day and time to those action items.

Now, whether they do it at that time, you know, maybe something came up and they couldn’t do it at that time, no problem, or they weren’t able to do it at all. Okay, What happened? It’s never like I’m sure it’s the same for you. Like it’s never like a shame type situation. They are in charge. They’re the boss.

But let’s work through, like, what’s getting in your way. Yeah. And if I say something similar, which is it’s data. If you do the thing and it’s data, if you don’t do the thing regardless. And we want the data collection, especially in the beginning, like we want as much information, specific information as we could possibly get. Love that, love that.

All right. Well, that is our time. But I want you to tell people like where to connect with you, all the things. Yeah, absolutely. So we’ll go. We’ll go in order. So with executive functioning coaching, I am taking on clients, mostly adults, adults with ADHD. That tends to be who I work with. So you can go to effective artistry.com and you can.

I think there’s a link you can click to just book free session with me it’s a 20 minute session just to kind of chat about where you’re at and my work and that’s how you can find me there. Moving on over to the podcast, so I think I would say follow me on Instagram. It’s called the ADHD Artist Podcast, and you can get links, you can find me on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen, you can just search.

But if you go to my Instagram, it’ll have like all the different links. It was very easy to find you, by the way. Good. Feel good feedback. Thank you. Then the other thing is a backup plan. Candles. And that is just backupplancandles.com. You can also follow me on Instagram. I’m trying to do tik tok.

I’m not very good at it. I’m finding just consistency. But but I am on there and we are approaching candle season, which is September three. I was hoping you’d mention that. Okay. Yeah, it’s. It’s gonna be crazy. When did the new sense come out? Are they out in September or are they already out September 1st? Okay, very good.

Yeah. And is there an Instagram for your candles? Did you say that? Yeah. So it’s just backup plan candles, and you can just find it there. And that’s where I’ll make announcements. But you can also sign up for our newsletter so you can find out, like when the new scents are coming out. I mean, I just told you, but like, in general, you can find out when the holiday scents are coming out and what events we have.

And it’d be nice to have the reminders for sure. Yeah. And we’ll have all that in the show notes and hopefully you gave me all that when you gave me your bio. Yeah. If not, email me any links that you didn’t already. Will make sure we get it in the show notes for everybody to check out. But thank you so much for coming on.

Sara Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was great. All right. Thank you.